Downstairs in the lobby of CBS Records, where the almighty live and thrive, a man in a wide boy grown-up suit is trying desperately to impress the girl on reception that his video of performing budgies is really rather neat. "Mike Mansfield is interested!", he splutters in defence of his art and exploitation. Upstairs sits a man with a waterfall of brown hair down one side of his cheeky face. Pete Burns of Dead Or Alive.

This man is no prat! Let us get that clear. He knows one of the Iconoclasts and his first bursting bubble of speech carries a surprisingly high spirit quotient. I've had a cassette of the Dead Or Alive album for what seems like half my lifetime. WHY?
"Even though when it comes out it'll be dated I'll feel a bit more at ease with what's going to be happening this year. Chart wise everything is changing, gradually. If we'd released it last year I don't think it would have done anything."

And the record company are happy?
"They're quite cool about it. We went through a very bad phase with them because they do tend to think they own you once you've signed along the dotted line. I'd strongly recommend no band ever to sign to a major record company unless they've got real strength of character. It's one of the most frustrating situations you can be in because ultimately they do pull the punches. Last year there were certain people who thought they could advise us and I don't take very kindly to advice, especially not people who work in this type of environment. I hate to use the word 'artistic direction' but they do tend to think What can we put on this record so that it will sell? rather than Is it a good record?"

"We had a row with the record company, went to Paris and hid. They  wanted to hold the single. They said: We're holding the single and I said: Well, we're not making any more records! They said: That's stupid and I said: No it's not because we've had the money. You can manipulate your own being dropped because if this record deal fell through I'm quite confident we could get another one."

"I don't let anyone push me around. That's why I'm not a big star. I'm not a big head but I think I come over to a lot of people as over arrogant. It's not that... the reason people like me go into a career in music is firstly that you like it and secondly you're led to believe it's a place where self-expression is o.k. As soon as you get through the other side you realise it's not, it's totally about being geared towards the money-making market. Which is all alright but it's not the reason I got into it so I don't let people push me around too much. It doesn't mean that much to me that I became a great commercial success that I'd go through the carwash process. I sincerely believe the record company wanted me to be something else. What I don't know."

"You're dealing with a company of individuals as a whole. There's always these individuals who can get away with things, put a spoke in and hinder you. In a huge company like this if three people hate you that can really ruin a whole year. And you can't actually locate these people they're faceless." But whoever this trio of non-Peteophiles were they've since departed. Pete casts a winsome eye around the office, opens a desk drawer and displays a hot water bottle.

"You like to think you are part of the overground system so you feel your records aren't wasted on twenty nine blokes in long macs. People don't believe me when they interview me, because I am flambouyant, but I am the sort of person who, like New Order, would like to make the records and leave it. But because I have this tantalising image, as they would describe it, I've got to go out and promote myself all the time. One outbalances the other and suddenly your image becomes more important than your record, and then it's a load of shit y'know because why bother making the records? Why not just sell a picture?"

"I get a fan-mail from young girls saying, I like your hair, how long does it take to grow? Poor kids, y'know? I don't like it that much. I don't answer those letters. I'm not being snobby, I understand their level, I'm just sad I've reached those people. I wish they could see a bit deeper, it's not just your hairstyle. I've been like this a long time and if I'd wanted to sel myself solely on image I'd have done so a long time ago but I wasn't interested. I'm still not interested."

After such resiliant resolve from the genial gent what an old swine I am to tell him I find his record sorely lacking character, that it has no identity save for his voice. I can't tell him that I've played it more than anything else this year. I barely get the opening line out and...
"I don't know how to take that criticism because to me it sounds like us because we have been doing it for a long time. Don't forget there's things that have come along since then like New Order and Blancmange. They sound exactly like demos we did two years ago. You have to release those songs on your first album because they've been with you a long time. I'm not apologising because I think it is quite a good album. As far as I'm concerned it's something out of my system but I think there may be a lot more identity on the next album. I don't like much variation in music. I like things to sound the same. I've got a very funny view of music."

Eeven within the context of one album?
""Yeah. The whole thing has got to sound the same. It was great fun to make the reocrd because we'd just won a minor power struggle and were doing the album the way we wanted it, with all the vulgar lyrics and all the sexy connotations that would normally make any major record company lay an egg."

And those DJ's?
"They won't play our records, they can't bear them it seems. My voice isn't very commercial air play, I think it offends. It's too loud. There's certain voices isn,'t there that are always on the radio? The airplay thing is sad. I can still hear that fucking Cyndi Lauper record on the radio. It's going down the chart. Why is it still being played? I realise now, being on a major label, there are so many bands struggling for just one airplay and they're not getting it. They'll play you if you get in the charts... so how do you get in the charts?"

"I like to think I appeal to slightly more subversive bracket. I don't identify with the Batcave movement at all but at least it was healthier than the Blitz movement. Even though it was similar it was still young people being a bit unnacceptable, young people showing they were young instead old being old codgers."

"I'd really like... this such an old hack's saying but I'd like to see another punky movement, something new. That died out too quick. That was where I felt the most affinity, in the punk days."

"What happens now is the whole thing's changed. When you're on an Independent label there's no importance on TOTP. It doesn't matter, you're selling ok. But you go into the major field and all the importance is getting your gob on TOTP... and it really doesn't matter that much. It does psychologically to everybody, it's a whole new pressure that comes on ya and it's such... SUCH A BORE! It'll sell you on huge amounts of records which is ultimately what we'll have to do. I want to be around for a long time. I've had a good run out of it... five years. I wouldn't like to think it'll be over next year."

"I don't know what medium we belong in but there must be one that exists between cult level and overkill. You get put in with these other pop starts, asking what colour your knickers are and what's your favourite drink? I had one of those the other day. I nearly put the phone down because it was such a strain. Who would I most like to be trapped on a desert island with? I said I didn't know. I was a real bore for the guy and I could tell he was disappointed. And what's your favourite sexual fantasy... and don't say nothing too naughty because we won't be able to put in the magazine... doing that I do not belong. The feelling of alienation that comes over me doing something like that is so demoralising. You start to actually think you are a freak and you don't belong."

Huh! Spell in the army should sort him out!

Interview: Mick Mercer
(Zig-Zag, April 1984)